Gender stuff

[vilakins]

I haven't posted much lately. Time for a catch-up.

Last Wednesday I inadvertently went off to a friend's apartment on the waterfront without knowing there was a tsunami warning. I think it had fizzled out; I didn't see anything and I heard it was about 40cms. Anyway, this friend dresses her little boy in blue and green and grey, and her little girl in... pink. Pretty much all pink, or pink and red flowers on white, with frills and bows and whatnot. She's only two so she probably hasn't any taste of her own yet, but I am so glad my parents let me dress the way I liked when I was older, in shorts and t-shirts, stripes etc, and in colours I liked, none of which were pink. Actually I have grown to like a bright, strong pink, but only as an accent colour. It carries a lot of baggage.

An aside: a colour-blind guy once told me that he was puzzled for years about why the world's armies mostly dressed in pink. I wish. Also someone once said that red is a strong, aggressive colour and blue is calming, so maybe dressing kids in paler versions of those will even things out. Once again, I wish.

Further on gender stereo-typing though, I got talked into taking part in a children's charity thing which sends gifts to kids in the islands. You have to fill a shoebox with various gifts: something to cuddle, something to play with, to use at school, for personal hygiene, to wear etc. Then you label the box "girl" or "boy" and give an age range. I rebelled against that and bought things I thought any kid would like: felt-tip pens in a pencil case, stickers, a maraca, two ping-pong bats and three balls, a hacky-sack, a yo-yo, sunglasses, a cap, some dinosaurs, and a plushie I think is a dinosaur or possibly a frog. Plus some soap and a toothbrush. I shall label it "girl OR boy. 8-10". I daresay that will annoy them no end, but hey, it might fix an imbalance by one child anyway.

As a kid, I played with boys' toys and would not have liked to get a box of pink assumed girls' stuff. In fact I'd have probably lied about my sex. I used to on holiday when no one knew me, because it's not blondes who have more fun. It's boys.

Maybe I should label my box "boy" with a "tom" on the front. :-)

Comments

[toft]

Good for you!

[brewsternorth]

Good thinking indeed!

Augh, the shoebox people (I'm guessing it's this bunch?). I mean, there may be a small number of things more appropriate towards girls than towards boys, but yeah, stereotyping = not cool.

[vilakins]

Yep, those people. A friend gave me one of their shoe boxes. The gifts go to the Pacific islands from here; I suppose all countries support different places.

[Edit] And now I see from your link that they're "evangelical Christians", no wonder they push the gender stereotypes. Still, plenty of non-religious parents like my friend do the same.

I'm hoping my gifts please whoever gets them. :-) Of course, it works both ways; I've known boys who weren't interested in traditional boys' toys.

[vilakins]

I just hope the kid likes the gifts.

[spacefall.livejournal.com]

Urgh, I hate all this pink-is-for-girls crap. It's so pervasive. I even found that, in the 'dressing up' section of a shop, the realistic police hats were labelled as for boys, and the frilly fluffy pink ones for girls 0.o wtf?! I hate girls and boys sections in shops. They're kids! For years my nephew did not assign a sex to me at all, but now he's started school and learn that some things are not allowed depending on sex: 'noo that's for girls!'

[kalinda001.livejournal.com]

It does seem a sexist and very out-dated thing to do these days. Stereotyping genders like that in terms of gifts. I was quite a tomboy myself when I was young. Preferring to learn woodworking rather than sewing and cooking.

[azdak.livejournal.com]

I would have wanted one of your parcels, and been very miserable if I'd got the pink-and-fluffy kind. On the other hand, I have to admit that I'd also have been disappointed to get a parcel with a load of toy cars, or an Action Man, or a football. So, actually, The Third Way Tomboy Parcel would have been ideal.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Frilly fluffy pink police hats? WTF indeed! As for kids' clothes, I really hate the sexualisation of girls with cut-down versions of revealing sexy adult clothes. There are plenty of fun and funky kids' clothes that will suit any: jeans, overalls, cute colourful sweaters and t-shirts. But then you get the stupid buttoning conventions. I'm used to buttoning either way, having a mix of men's shirts and jackets and plain women's ones, but it's a deal-breaker for males.

'noo that's for girls!'

And of course boys think that's bad per se. They learn early that for or like girls = bad; see a lot of insults bandied about by adults who should bloody know better.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I did too. I'm still better at house maintenance than Greg.

It's possible, as I did, to find gifts that any kid might like. Most charities like that ask you to buy for a sex; I used to get a gift for a children with a parent in prison and you had to pick a sex so I'd pick "girl" and buy art supplies like paints or pencils since I figured girls got the worst deal.

[miss-next.livejournal.com]

I'm the girl who was given a doll's cot by her parents at a very early age, and promptly turned it upside down and used it as a spaceship. They weren't impressed at the time, but wisely they did get used to me. :-)

The thing with me was that I always judged a toy on its imaginative possibilities. Dolls, therefore, I found rather limited on the whole, though I did like Action Girl, since she had the sort of clothes in which it was practical to have adventures (including a very cool pair of flat ankle boots). It was only when I got older and learnt to sew well that they developed a more "domestic" use; I designed outfits for Action Girl and for my sisters' Pippa dolls. We did a display once for our history lessons, and Action Girl ended up chained to a set of railings in an outfit I had designed for her, being a suffragette. I have to say I was jolly proud of that outfit. It had a hat and all.

I've also never been very keen on pink apart from film-fogging fuchsia, and my sisters were both much the same (the rule was generally "red for Deb and blue for Sue" if in any doubt, and it was and still is green for me), but oddly both my nieces insist on the pinkest, fluffiest, frilliest clothes that can be bought for them, much to the bemusement of my sister and her husband, who had envisaged them running around in practical unisex outfits. It just goes to show you never can tell.

Incidentally, do you know that this "pink for girls, blue for boys" mullarkey is less than hundred years old, and in the early 1900s it was actually the other way round? I found that out quite recently, and was fascinated. I bet the pink-for-boys stuff wasn't all frilly and fluffy, though!

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't mind a football if it was your sort--soccer--but I wouldn't have had any use for a rugby ball. I loathe thugby. OTOH I did play with tanks and model soldiers and guns, and made model fighter planes and hung them from my ceiling. I'm a lot more pacifist now but I still have a soft spot for tanks, fighters, and camo. :-)

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

My parents didn't mind me wanting boys' toys either. My sister OTOH loved dolls and playing brides and dressing up. [rolls eyes] The worst toys for girls I consider to be toy irons and stoves and other non-fun RL things. I don't mind dolls' houses so much because you can role-play a lot in those with suitable action figures and animals.

I did play with two dolls, but as you say, only because they could be used imaginatively. They were small soft plastic ones with nylon hair and I'd immerse them in the bath and have them attack the foreign territory of my sister's knees while she defended with her own two. Those cheap little dolls had movable limbs and very different and expressive faces (probably due to cheap manufacture with soft plastic) and could be used so many ways, unlike the big beautiful doll I was given at five and which I still have--in excellent condition because it was never played with.

Action Girl ended up chained to a set of railings in an outfit I had designed for her, being a suffragette.

That's brilliant!

My parents tended to buy me olive green and brown because they figured it matched my eyes and hair, but it didn't really suit me. I branched out into brighter colours and crisp black-and-white as a teenager.

in the early 1900s it was actually the other way round

I never knew that! Perhaps it really was because it was the pale version of anger and blood and violence, and girls got the calming sky and ocean blue. I wonder why it changed. Guys now avoid pink with a pathological fear, because anything female is by definition contemptible. Grrrr.

[zoefruitcake.livejournal.com]

my mother was definitely in the pink for a girl camp. As a child I hated pink. I wasn't that much of a tom boy, I mean I liked some dolls, but adored lego and anything to do with space. But everything defaulted to pink with my mother. I remember having pink roses on my wallpaper, when I wanted the William Morris style green ferns that the bathroom got. I remember needing wool for school, and asking my mother to get me anything but pink. She got me pink. Sigh

[zoefruitcake.livejournal.com]

Incidentally, do you know that this "pink for girls, blue for boys" mullarkey is less than hundred years old, and in the early 1900s it was actually the other way round? I found that out quite recently, and was fascinated. I bet the pink-for-boys stuff wasn't all frilly and fluffy, though!

I was going to say this, but you beat me to it. Pink was 'light red' and a strong, manly colour

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

How infuriating! [notes pink icon however] Actually that icon looks like the dresses my friend's daughter wears.

My sister and I shared a room and my mother decided to redecorate it one day when I was about 13 without consulting us. We got pink wallpaper with little silver and gold outlines of ballerinas. WTH? I said that since I hadn't been asked, could I choose the curtains? I got an abstract print in bright lime greens and yellows. Bwahahaha!

[bramblyhedge.livejournal.com]

I like the "Tomboy" option. :D Not that I actually was one as a child, but I did have a profound disinterest in pink and dolls and a huge interest in tree-climbing and animals (still love any and all critters to this day). My parents quickly learned never to buy me dolls (shaved heads and limb severing made the point clear) as I preferred plushie animals.

This pink/blue gender divide as a statement of social acceptability in childhood is weird, isn't it. I wonder if it's because They (the capital They) think otherwise kids will turn out gay? The plague reaction men have to pink is also fear of being thought homosexual, & not necessarily a "female = bad" reaction.

Anyhow, I must add here that the girls I knew at school who insisted on wearing uniform trousers rather than skirts, and had short hair, and etc - are 99% married with chidren of their own these days. Meanwhile the very striking long-blonde-hair girl who always wore dresses and makeup - she now has a cute Asian girlfriend. :) So, no, pink is not a childhood innoculation to Teh Gay. :D

[emerald-happy.livejournal.com]

Oh, I did one of those shoebox gift things at school and it asked to write girl or boy on it. Most of the stuff I did put in could have gone for either except I also put in these hairclips I'd never wear so ended up just writing 'girl' on it.

It freaks me out that when I see kids clothes they're mini versions of adult clothes (especially for girls) and pretty expensive. I think - aren't they going to wreck them running around outside or grow out of them soon?

Pink was my favourite colour when I was eight years old but I didn't like ruffles and flowers. I hated the outfits my dolls originally had so started making my own. I didn't mind getting pink assumed girls stuff because I could make other things out of it. The teacup saucers became food and water dishes for my plushie cats and I painted the doll's house half black, half multicoloured for Winnie the Witch.

[jhall1.livejournal.com]

I'm the girl who was given a doll's cot by her parents at a very early age, and promptly turned it upside down and used it as a spaceship.

:)

Well done, you.

[jhall1.livejournal.com]

The sad thing is that it seems to be the mothers, at least as much as the fathers, who encourage gender stereotyping in their children.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I was just thinking about how schools force girls to wear skirts; at least most around here do. My first high school (I went to three) had trousers for winter, but a dress for summer, but I never see schoolgirls in trousers if their schools have uniforms. The weird thing is the number of year 13s who wear ankle-length skirts; either it's the standard or a school fashion thing. I'd trip over the stupid thing.

I was one of those who dressed as a boy before high school, and had short hair most of her life, but I've never gone the normal kids and domestic scariness route. My sister did all that (and was a gorgeous long-haired blonde beauty contest winner, blah blah, Quinn to my Daria) and she always wanted to. She's happy with it, but it annoys me that people assume that's normal and women who don't want kids aren't.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

And I suspect that the ones who object to it like me never have the kids to bring up another way.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I hated ruffles and bows, and still do. I remember making any bows I encountered in colouring books black to express my distaste, and I was only 5 or 6. :-)

The teacup saucers became food and water dishes for my plushie cats and I paited the doll's house half black, half multicoloured for Winnie the Witch.

Awwww, lucky plushie cats (of which I have about 15, hem hem) and that dolls' house sounds awesome. I love how people here have adapted things to suit them. :-)

[emerald-happy.livejournal.com]

*hearts plushie cats so much*

I have *counts* 16! I wish they were real.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Three real ones are enough! :-) I used to upset Tessa by cuddling a plushie, but I don't think this lot minds.

[vjezkova.livejournal.com]

I am so glad you feel about the thing like that! I agree entirely, being a tomboy myself and my both children grew up in this style as well in spite of a pressing attempts from the side of my husband´s mum (pink, dolls, sexism like a hell). Thank you!!! :-):-)