Two ceremonies

[vilakins]

That wedding? Had twelve speeches. Yep, twelve of them. I wish they'd warned us beforehand so we could have made pit stops.

The ceremony was fine (in fact the bride kept giggling and laughing, she was so delighted) and my only objection was the use of an almost unreadable cursive font which meant hardly anyone could read the words of the two songs we were supposed to sing.

The couple are about 22 and I was horrified to learn during the interminable speeches that he asked her father for permission to date her (about four years ago) and to marry her. WTH? I thought that sexist rubbish went out with the 50s, but then many brides, like this one, still think they need a male owner to give them to their next one. Grrr. I really thought those two were a lot more modern and, well, equal than that. I look forward to the civil union between two middle-aged friends as an antidote.


OK, that aside, it's Obama's inauguration tomorrow--at about 5am here. :-P I've managed to get up at 6 for World Cups and the like, so I shall make an effort to see this live with the rest of the world. I have laid in English muffins, tomatoes, cheese, and eggs, and we have a very good espresso machine. We are prepared. :-D

Comments

[babel.livejournal.com]

I think you misspelled a name there. <_<;

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I did! And that's about the worst typo I could have made. :-P

[vandonovan.livejournal.com]

I think you can do that "giving away" bit as a tradition without it being OMG HORRIBLY SEXIST. I mean, yeah, it's got it's roots, but I seriously doubt she intends or views it as a "my dad owns me and now my husband owns" me view point. It's more of a . . . I dunn, polite way of courtship.



Also, I think you meant "Obama" XD

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Even if no one else does mean it that way (I would have refused to do it even if I had parents, but at least a friend had both of hers give her away) I'm pretty sure she did if Ben had to ask her father permission to date and marry her. [stab] Surely it's up to her, not her father.

Ugh. I hate the whole tradition anyway because the roots are so offensive. You even get older people like Shirley Schmidt on Boston Legal--a brilliant lawyer and a person married twice before--feeling the need for a male to 'give her away'. Feh.

I did indeed. What a terrible (but sort of funny) typo! [headdesk]

[vandonovan.livejournal.com]

While you may be right, and you know the bride more than me, of course, I wouldn't say that just because a girl wants to follow tradition that makes her really sexist. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting your parent's approval of your lover. I doubt that would make her NOT marry someone, but it's just . . . polite. Of course, like I said, I don't know her. So maybe she does adhere to all that stuff and wouldn't have married him if her father hadn't approved. But, she's an adult woman and if she wants to live that way, she's entitled. That's the beauty of the world--you can choose not to be that way, but you can also choose to be that way. It's still excercising your rights as a woman.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

And we're all entitled to our own opinions.

Look, would a woman ask a man's mother if it's OK to date/marry him?

[vandonovan.livejournal.com]

If she were Jewish, perhaps? XD

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

A hit, a palpable hit! :-)

[kindkit.livejournal.com]

Twelve speeches? Are you sure you were at the wedding and hadn't stumbled into a political party conference by mistake?

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

It would have been about as interesting. :-( Really, that was even worse than I imagined.

[imhilien.livejournal.com]

12 speeches? Eep.

Am looking forward to the inauguration. :)

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I know. :-(

So you're getting up early too?

[imhilien.livejournal.com]

I will try. :-p

[kalinda001.livejournal.com]

12 speeches? Bring on the coffee!

And yes, I know what you mean about the sexist tradition. You wouldn't expect it the other way around. How about a little parity here? Just because it's considered polite, still doesn't excuse that it's a sexist tradtion.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Word. It was painful and very self-indulgent.

My point exactly. Thank you.

[kalinda001.livejournal.com]

I didn't think they did that these days. The asking for permission. I've never had that happen but I was surprised that once someone actually asked me for permission to date me.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

That's all right--they asked you! But I'd really thought the "asking for your daughter's hand" had gone decades ago. Isn't it just "come and meet the family" now that means one is serious?

[entropy-house.livejournal.com]

Huzzah for Obama. I have hope. :^)

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

So do I. And we do all need it so.

[ultrapsychobrat.livejournal.com]

You sound better prepared for the inauguration than we are, but we'll be watching with tears in our eyes most likely.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I might be too! And you have to be prepared when it's that early in the morning. :-P

[vjezkova.livejournal.com]

Twelve speeched...indeed.
Ah, that thing with asking permission - ehm, my own husband also expected my daughter´s friend to come to him and ASK...but this was an echo of his family (ugh) and when he saw my expression, he came to senses again :-)

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

:-) You go, girl!

[linda-joyce.livejournal.com]

I would have possibly dumped any man who asked my father's permission to court me, but I know Dad would have told him that he was asking the wrong person and that he (Dad) would have probably said no for the same reason, I would have. It's sexist and demeaning to the girl. Dad wouldn't have thought it sexist just wrong, I'm not sure he even new what the term sexist meant, but Mam had refused to promise to obey him which in 1947 was very feminist so he knew is wife was a matriarch from day one and raised her daughter to be one too.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Good for your parents! At least this couple used the same vows to each other, and 'obey' didn't feature.

[sallymn.livejournal.com]

Twelve????? Oh poor you...

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Indeed. I had my eyes and my legs crossed. :-(

[jhall1.livejournal.com]

I feel rather sorry for Barack Obama. Expectations of him seem so unrealistically high in the US that, even if he does a fine job, I suspect that many people will feel disillusioned with him a couple of years down the line.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

So someone has just been saying on TV; that when things aren't that different for the ordinary person in a few months, people will be disillusioned. However I also think that hope itself is very powerful, and that people can take a longer view; so many fought throughout the war without giving up.

[jhall1.livejournal.com]

It may help that he's taking office now, rather than say twelve months ago. If he had taken office then, he'd have been blamed for the economic slump that followed, even though by then it would have been too late to prevent it. As it is, with any luck we aren't too far from the bottom, and he will get the credit for the recovery from it.

Incidentally, I was trying to remember where it was that we were talking about "Howl's Moving Castle", but without success. I remember your saying that the book was even better than the film. I've now read both that and Diana Wynne Jones' two subsequent books set in the same world, and enjoyed them all. So thanks for the recommendation. :)

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Excellent! I have yet to read the third one myself.

I think it was on your LJ after you;d seen the film.

[jhall1.livejournal.com]

Yes, found it now. I don't know why I couldn't find it before. Tomorrow I might comment further there.

[kernezelda]

Twelve speeches, unannounced? Goodness gracious.

I was surprised at a scene from Chuck in which the lead's sister's boyfriend asked for his permission, as the man in her family, to marry her. I know the show's designed to appeal to teenage boys, but that threw me for a bit. There wasn't any doubt of the answer, and the lead even seemed surprised to be asked, but that the boyfriend asked surprised me.

On the other hand, if I ever married, I'd want to be walked down the aisle by a male relative I held in affection.

I'm with JHall above - there are so many people counting so heavily on Obama that I fear it'll create a backlash when problems aren't magically solved his first day in office. It's a lot of pressure to put on a man, and his family.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

[rolls eyes] Sexism really is the last bastion of bigotry which will fall.

Not me! I walked with just my sister who was my attendant. A friend of mine had both parents "give her away" which I think was a much better idea.

I think people will be willing to hope and work for the future if they see some progress, just as they did during the war. I'm hoping so anyway.

[crycraven.livejournal.com]

I'm with you on the asking thing - a guy I worked with who lived with his girlfriend asked for her hand - I said 'WTF?' and he was all 'tradition' so I said 'So are you hanging the sheets out for me to check for bloodstains, too?' Yuck.

I then asked my dad what he would do if a man asked him for my 'hand'. He laughed and said 'at that moment, Annie, I'd know he was the wrong man for
you.'

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Hahaha, good answers, both! I suppose the guy knelt down to propose as well. :-P And how inconsistent given that he was non-traditionally living with her.

I hope Avon keeps the rhubarb in line. I thought he'd have gone in for ham, myself.