I'm no lady

[vilakins]

We've had the Olympics on without sound during breakfast because it's rather relaxing watching people race downhill over a cup of coffee, and I have a question. Why the hell are the women's events called Ladies'? The men's aren't gentlemen's events (though I think it would be charming if they used both terms) and it's "women's" in the summer Olympics. "Ladies'" implies that it's somewhat unusual for the delicate sex to take part in a spot of winter sports, by Jove, but aren't they plucky, what?

:-(

Comments

[elmey.livejournal.com]

It's some weird IOC thing. I mean they're not known for being progressive.
The newspapers and TV here (in the US) identify the sports as Women's downhill etc. Though Ice Skating may still be Ladies, I can't remember.
I'm in the middle of watching the Belarus/Switzerland shootout (ice hockey) right now :)

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I suppose we're getting an old-fashioned feed then, or an official one or somthing. I doubt our commentators would say "ladies", but I didn't have the sound on.

So it's officially "ladies" for the summer games too? I've never seen that. Grrr.

I support Belarus in that match. How's it going?

[elmey.livejournal.com]

The Swiss just won the shootout. They'll meet the US in the quarterfinals. I'm kind of rooting for the Canadians to go all the way, otherwise they won't leave the country alive and we need them back in the NHL :)

I can't remember what they do in the Summer Olympics. Probably the same thing.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I've always seen "women's" here.

There are countries like Switzerland I'd support anyone else against, having spent several months there and found out how bigoted and narrow-minded they are. But yes, Canada ought to win on their home ground, because otherwise the shame, the shame!

[reapermum.livejournal.com]

Croquet only has one competition where they separate the sexes, they call it the "Men's and Women's". All other tournaments are unisex (gender neutral?), and only limit by ranking.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Good for them! Though I do see the reason for separation in most sports where size and strength count. I was just objecting to the term "ladies".

[reapermum.livejournal.com]

Where strength and size is an issue, yes, but there are still too many sports that depend on skill that maintain the division.

I want "gentlemen"

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Yes! It should be neither or both!

[snowgrouse.livejournal.com]

It can go either way, I find. Sometimes, depending on the context it's used in, I can find "woman" uncomfortable because it can carry implications of someone being put in her place because of her gender (think Jarvik). Even when it *isn't* used in that admonishing macho sense, there can be a slight taint there from that kind of usage and I've seen usage where "ladies" has been used deliberately in order to sound more respectful--even though sometimes "ladies" does have that exact belittling "delicate sex" implication as well. It's annoying when idiotic gender roles and customs have made it so that *any* reference to the female gender can carry unnecessary traces of power dynamics. *sigh*

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

And while any female term is an insult (see TV programs like "Scrubs" and remarks comparing people--IOW men--to little girls) this will always be so.

I prefer "women" if "men" is being used though. To me that's purely descriptive. Jarvik's use was pure insult though, as it took Servalan's identity away.

[wolfma.livejournal.com]

watching people race downhill over a cup of coffee

I have a mental picture of people slipping on coffee, and now I'm giggling.

My apologies.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

They're supposed to jump the cup of coffee. It's an obstacle course.

[wolfma.livejournal.com]

Hmm...maybe jump a Starbucks. That way they could get the product placement in...

[jaxomsride.livejournal.com]

me too!
Either that or they were desperate for a morning coffee themselves!

I don't think it's meant as a belittling term, just the Olympics are a bit old fashioned in some respects.

Mind you they don't seem to like it when the women challenge the men anyway, look at the furore when Semenya ran "too fast for a woman".

[wolfma.livejournal.com]

The Latte Luge...

[jhall1.livejournal.com]

My mind evidently works the same way as yours. :)

[kalinda001.livejournal.com]

Holdover from more medieval attitudes?

[vjezkova.livejournal.com]

I haven´t noticed this "ladies", of course, fortunately in Czech all is right with Women and Men, thanks gods:-)
I have survived a very unnerving ice-hockey match Czech Republic vs.Latvia, it was just! (3:2). I had to catch my bus to work at 6:40 a.m. and the match was still in progress, so we asked our driver to switch a radio on. There are always the same people who go every morning and we relatively know each other. But the driver refused, saying that it would be breaking the copyright and a public performance and that a revisor might come. We thought he was joking (it is absurd to expect a revisor from any copyright protecting body there, this route is one of those totally unimportant) but he was not. The rest of our journey was "furious silence" style. A pompous idiot, this is our driver ( and not only because this, I assure you!).

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

He certainly is! If it's on the radio, it's hardly breaking copyright (and frankly all those laws are on the side of Big Money).

[jhall1.livejournal.com]

I think that most of the old-established sports tend to use "ladies'" rather than "women's". I suspect that when they began, a hundred years ago or whatever, it was a class thing, hinting that the lower orders would not be welcome. No-one's ever bothered to change it. We have "ladies' golf" and "the ladies' singles" at Wimbledon.

One of the things that I like about women's cricket is that it's always been for "women" rather than for "ladies", even though it began as an organised sport in the 1920s (IIRC) when the Women's Cricket Association was formed in England.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Now that is cricket. :-)

[pet-lunatic.livejournal.com]

Ah, I hate this sort of thing :( It's like in golf, where the commentators refer to the men by surnames, but feel the need to call the women 'Miss'. I've always hated being called or referred to as a 'lady'.

Reminds me of my dad's Golf Anecdote #37 (I may be slightly fuzzy on the exact details), about the woman who ran into the clubhouse at a posh course to call for an ambulance. Her husband was having a heart attack outside. The Captain let her use the phone - then sent her a formal reprimand by mail, reminding her that 'ladies are not allowed in the clubhouse.' Golfers are absurdly offended by women, short socks, and collarless shirts, it seems. I love golf as a game, but the daft rules put me off playing a bit.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

This revolting sexism is exactly why Greg won't play golf except on an public course, and one of the many reasons I love him. Not a lot of guys think about what it's like to be discriminated against, but he always has.