Discworld

[vilakins]

I should talk about the books I've read lately, but I'll just mention the Discworld ones.

Going Postal was great, and against all my expectations, mostly caused by his name, I liked Moist von Lipwig a lot. Yes, he did remind me of a certain thief with his particular brand of ethics and charm. :-)

Thud however I have mixed feelings about. There's a lot of Vimes and this is good, and I suppose I can just believe that he might get a bit obsessive about getting home by 6pm to read his kid a story if I try hard, but WTH, Terry Pratchett? You can tell which dwarfs are female by their reaction to babies? In my case, Vimes would assume by the speed at which I left the room that I'm very much male. Also, what's with the sudden introduction of millions-of-years-old recording devices that will survive anything? This plot does not feel well thought out, and the exploding cabbages during the fast ride almost made my brain explode too. Internal consistency is a good thing, even in invented worlds, and those things didn't seem to fit into the universe I've got to know.

As an aside, Willikins' name still unnerves me every time I see it. He's a very cool character though, with his very correct and dignified butler speech combined with a deadly facility with anything he can turn into a weapon. :-) I'd like to read more of him. He and Vimes make an excellent team.

Comments

[mab_browne]

I'd certainly feel the need to reinvent myself with a name like Moist von Lipwig. :-)

[vilakins]

I gather he spent most of his life not using it. :-)

[kindkit.livejournal.com]

"What the hell? This makes no sense!" was pretty much my feeling about Thud too, alas.

I bet you'll like Making Money, though.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Oh, good! It's more of Moist, isn't it? I do wish they'd called the poor guy something else. I could see during bits of Going Postal that the next thing would be paper money. :-)

[kindkit.livejournal.com]

I sort of like the name, just because it's such a great opportunity for jokes at his expense. Anyway, yes, Moist is the main character of Making Money, and he's great in it. It's a good book for Vetinari, too, and it's got some wonderful one-off supporting characters.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I look forward to it! In the meantime I have The Thief by Megan Whalen Turner, recced to me by emerald_happy, another Vila fan who assured me I'll love it. :-)

[emerald-happy.livejournal.com]

Ah, Thud. It doesn't make sense. Though I loved the exploding cabbages and the whole conversation between Ridcully and Vimes about the watch not using magic so I just went along with it.

Making Money is the next Moist book and it is pretty good too. Apparently he's going to write a third, Raising Taxes. I have some theories of what's going to happen in Moist's life but I won't tell them to you until you've read Making Money :P

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I liked that indirect conversation too. I like Ridcully though I wasn't sure about him when I first met him.

Marriage to Adora Belle Dearheart by any chance? :-)

[azdak.livejournal.com]

I'm convinced Moist is being groomed by Vetinari as the next Patrician.

[emerald-happy.livejournal.com]

ME TOO. *high fives*

[azdak.livejournal.com]

Go us!

[kindkit.livejournal.com]

I doubt this, myself. One thing we know about Moist is that he can't bear tedium and routine, and the Patrician's job is about 98% tedium and routine and only 2% improvisation and danger. Mostly, Vetinari sits behind a desk all day doing paperwork, which is exactly what drives Moist crazy and makes him invent stupid risks for himself. Vetinari's very aware that keeping Moist in the same job for long is a problem--there's no way he'd want Moist as Patrician.

[azdak.livejournal.com]

I don't think, though, that Vetinari would expect the next Patrician to have the same style as himself. Yes, he's a penpusher, but most Patricians haven't been. What makes me suspicious of Vetinari's intentions towards Moist is that Moist can run systems. He gets the post office to work so that in the end it more or less runs itself. Ditto with the Mint. Of course, he'd constantly need some new challenge to move on to, but I doubt Ankh-Morpork would have any trouble supplying those.

*Happily imagines Patrician von Lipwig tackling the Reform of the Guilds*

[kindkit.livejournal.com]

he's a penpusher, but most Patricians haven't been

Most Patricians also haven't been any good at actually running the city. Generally they haven't even tried, being content to get rich and torture people for fun and profit.

I agree the Moist is an excellent problem-solver. I just don't think he's got the patience (or the ruthlessness) to be Patrician.

On the other hand, it's not impossible that Vetinari is trying to reduce the future role of the Patricianship; he's been building up civil society (e.g. the press) and a solid infrastructure that, as you said, more or less runs itself. A government that's running fairly smoothly can be handled by bureaucrats; in that case, if Moist did become Patrician he wouldn't have to bore himself with the day-to-day routine. He'd do what he's good at, which is handling a crisis.

My own theory is that Vetinari is grooming Drumknott (with the assistance of Vetinari's growing team of clerks) to handle a lot of routine government business. That will provide stability and free up the next Patrician for more of a statesman/crisis manager role. I think Carrot is the most logical choice for the Patricianship; he doesn't want it, but he'd accept it if he thought the city needed him.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Ah, now this is an idea that sounds a lot more Vetinari. Drumknott is the closest to knowing how Vetinari thinks and would be very good at handling the day-to-day collation of intelligence etc, while Moist would be good at dreaming up solutions to problems and bizarre crises and drawing the flak away from Drumknott. They'd be a good team.

[the-summoning-d.livejournal.com]

\o/ I approve of this theory!

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Really! Interesting thought! He's certainly clever enough, but does he have the ruthlessness? Not so far, anyway, but he does have the loyalty and sense of responsibility to those who depend on him as he found at the PO. He'd be a flamboyant ruler, preferring to hide his real self behind the dazzling image.

I'm beginning to see this.

[jhall1.livejournal.com]

I have to confess to having enjoyed "Thud" a lot, and thinking that it was up with the best Discworld books. But it's now at least two years since I read it, so I'm not sure that I could explain why I liked it so much.

"Going Postal" was good fun too.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I really did enjoy most of it, because it's hard to go wrong with that much Vimes--and I do like Sybil too--but the ancient alien recording devices just felt pasted on. I need that sort of thing explained in a way that makes sense.

Hey, I'm a nitpicker.

[jhall1.livejournal.com]

I'm often a nitpicker myself, so can hardly complain. For whatever reason, the ancient alien recording device didn't bother me though.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

There's usually an explanation for those things though. They were just... there.

Don't mind me. It was still full of Vimesy goodness. :-)

[jhall1.livejournal.com]

BTW, since Pratchett collaborated with Neil Gaiman on at least one occasion, perhaps that's a good enough reason to ask if you saw Gaiman's last but one blog entry, and in particular this bit near the end:

"I'll be at the Arts Festival in New Zealand in March. Here's the Town Hall event - http://www.nzfestival.nzpost.co.nz/writers-and-readers/town-hall-talk-neil-gaiman, and it looks like I'll be doing some other events while there. It may sell out fast, so if you're interested, get tickets early. (And do not miss Margo Lanagan, who will also be there, for she is an Incredibly Good Thing.)"

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Oh, thanks! I didn't know about that.

BTW a friend once met Dominic Monaghan in a queue at a bookshop here to get Terry Pratchett's autograph.

[jhall1.livejournal.com]

I confess that I had to look up Dominic Monaghan on Wikipedia, though having seen all three parts of Peter Jackson's LotR I really ought to have recognised his name. (Irrelevant aside: Merry was always my favourite of the four hobbits, at least in the books. Frodo could be a bit too sanctimonious at times, Sam sometimes suffered from Tolkien's idea that a member of the rural working class ought to act as comedy relief, and Pippin was a bit too much of an idiot until he matured near the end. But Merry was brave and resourceful.)

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I liked Merry best too.

British classism did show in Sam, with his peasant humour and loyalty to his master, which always annoys me about fantasies; they're so very reactionary.

[jhall1.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean, though "always" is perhaps overstating it. You couldn't say that about the fantasies od Ursula Le Guin, for instance.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Very true. I exaggerated. And the one I'm reading at the moment has a criminal protagonist from the lower classes--and the society is based on ancient Greece and not the usual medieval one. Yay.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I spoke too soon. The thief in the book I just finished turned out to be the queen's cousin and son of the minister of war, and her official thief. Sigh. I liked him, but I liked him better as the "gutter scum" he was passing himself off as to the others and the reader.

I did like the background though: an alternate history based on ancient Greece, but as it would be later on with watches and primitive guns etc.

[jhall1.livejournal.com]

Thst does sound fun.

[bigdamnxenafan.livejournal.com]

Oh Discworld! I so love Discworld. *hearts*

I thought Going Postal was brilliant!

However, like you I'm ambivalent about Thud. It had the feel of something that was rushed to completion in order to satisfy a deadline to me.

Willikins gives you the Willies, huh? Sorry couldn't resist. :D

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I love it too! There are a couple of books like Eric, Small Gods, and the one about film-making that I didn't much care for (though the last one introduced Gaspose the Wonder Dog which was good) but in general they are brilliant!

It did feel rushed after a fairly leisurely and enjoyable build-up, but the devices bothered me. They're not part of the universe, but sudden hasty intrusions from another, unlike the summoning dark which fitted well. I think a creature or demon that stored noises would have worked better.

Willkins just sounds too much like my LJ name! I adore him as a character though.

[jthijsen.livejournal.com]

I rather liked Moving Pictures and besides Gaspode it also introduced Detritus, who would later on become the awesome sergeant Detritus. I also quite liked CMOT Dibbler as a movie exec. It just seemed so fitting somehow.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, I forgot that was the first we saw of Detritus! He has grown so much in the series. I didn't dislike Moving Pictures like I did the other two; I just didn't love it, and I usually do with Discworld books. Taste is an odd thing.

[bigdamnxenafan.livejournal.com]

I wasn't a fan of Small Gods either and I know I read Eric, but for the life of me I can't remember what it was about. Must not have liked it that much. hehe Colour of Magic, Feet of Clay, and Soul Music are some of my faves.

The devices were an odd addition. I didn't get the point of that either.

Hehe yes it does! I just couldn't resist the bad joke. :D

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Eric was about hell. I think it was a YA book as it had a teenage boy in it. Not that I hold that against it; I love the Tiffany Aching novels.

I can see they needed some sort of record of how the trolls and dwarves were really in Koom Valley, but surely Pratchett could have used something from his own universe.

Willikins just started as a vaguely disapproving butler, but he's totally made of awesome now. I wish there were more similarities between us than the name.

[kalinda001.livejournal.com]

I'm serious behind in my Discworld books. Sounds like Going Postal should be my next one ;)

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

If you look up Discworld on the wikipedia, there's a list of novels in order. I've been working my way through them, and I'm almost there!

[jthijsen.livejournal.com]

Willikins totally rocks. If somehow I ever become rich enough to be able to afford a butler, the ad for the job will read "Those who aren't as awesome as Willikins need not apply."

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

My life is too boring to interest a Willikins, but I suppose he could do cat-wrangling on the side. ;-) I'm sure he loves having Vimes as one of his employers so that he can use his non-butlering skills.

[the-summoning-d.livejournal.com]

I liked Thud! Okay, so the climax got a little bit...odd...but I really liked it. But then again, I didn't think much of Making Money, so who knows what to think?

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I can tell you loved Thud! ;-)

I really enjoyed it apart from that one touch of sexism, and the recording devices. They feel alien and wrong. They should have been long-lived silicon-based life-forms that store sounds as a sort of side-effect of their metabolism or something else that feels Descworld. Or a subspecies of golem that writes texts in its head instead of reading it.

They didn't ruin the book which was a great read (unlike Eric and Small Gods) but they flaw what could have been a masterpiece. As someone else said, the ending feels rushed.

Cool icon! So, why did you chooce the eyeball on a string? Does it live in you now; it chose you? ;-) I love how Vimes got rid of is and answered the "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" question. Vimes, how I adore you.

[the-summoning-d.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I never thought about it that way. I just kind of shrugged it off as 'eh, magic' XD The ending did feel a bit rushed, I'll admit. It was never going to top Night Watch anyway. Night Watch was a thing of beauty.

The name...I was fascinated by the idea of 'mine sign' at the time, and the climax, the fact that he beats it - I thought that was brilliant. Plus it works when talking to non-Discworld fans too, on account of how it just sounds really cool XD

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Night Watch was indeed.

Vimes totally rocks, including the Watching Vimes. He pwned that Summoning Dark.

I laughed at the sign over the door that just meant "mine": the circle with the horizontal line through it. There were lots of really cool bits in there including the thud club and just about all the Vimes bits (he is my favourite). I just expected more of the actual plot climax, without machinae ex machina. :-)

[linda-joyce.livejournal.com]

Thud wasn't the best book he ever wrote but might well be the worst, I can't say for sure because I've never read any of the Johnny books. If you enjoyed Going Postal you will enjoy Making Money and Beth has just got the hands on his latest, Unseen Academicals, I will be standing over her muttering 'read faster' until she finishes it and I can have it. I'll speak about it when I have read it.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Thud was far from the worst. I just object to illogic (in this universe's terms) and inconsistency. I've just had major objections to the the science on two shows I watched tonight.

My name is Vilakins and I pick nits.