vilakins: Vila with stars superimposed (stars)
Nico ([personal profile] vilakins) wrote2008-02-03 04:05 pm

Horizon (204)

Space politics! Plus space crises and Space Security!

And space stress
Blake has a headache, Vila has stomach cramps, and Avon has back pain. What about Gan, Jenna, and Cally? Are they handling it better? Did the poor things get a holiday after this?

It's a small galaxy
Space is big. Really big. How on earth did they just happen to encounter the freighter (which seems to be the same model as the London)? Does Zen get lonely?

Sudden darts
Sorry, Vila, but I laughed when you went "Ergh!" and fell down because that bit's so funny in the Monty Python meets B7 vid. It took two to fell Gan. Go, Gan (but not for much longer). :-(

Costumes
Vila was wearing a very nice understated yellow or deep cream shirt; such a pity he loses it on Horizon. Not that I'm complaining about seeing him and Blake without their shirts. ;-) Cally obviously ditches hers after it got dirty (and not before time) but Jenna's appears again in the next ep. I can't believe the gauze survived the mine; she must have had more, and either got the monopasium out of the white bodysuit or had another one.
Ro and Selma's costumes at the end get my vote for best though. They're exotic and Aztec-looking and much more suited to the characters than Coser and Rashel's were.

Ro
I don't hold much hope for the inhabitants of Silmareno / Horizon. Ro might stand up to the Kommissar at the end and shoot him, but he really only does so because he hurt Selma and is revealed to have killed his father. Until then though, he was not very bothered by the Federation turning his people into slaves with very short life-spans, or even Selma being one of them, really. I'm also a little puzzled that he didn’t go back to the original name for the planet since in many ways he has returned to the past.

Selma
I think she'll be the power behind the throne; the true ruler.. She's tougher and more principled than Ro, and while it looks arrogant when she stalks through the slaves to get the first helping of food, she does give it to Jenna. I hope she has more empathy with the people than Ro, though that mightn't be hard.

Cally
Cally can't read non-telepathic minds according to 'Time Squad'; so perhaps the Kommissar is slightly telepathic. But then, Cally's backstory is a total mess that can't be fixed.

I enjoyed this ep very much: it has excellent guest characters and an interesting plot.

kernezelda: (B7 Avon)

[personal profile] kernezelda 2008-02-03 04:23 am (UTC)(link)
This is one of my preferred eps of Season Two. I especially like Avon's being left alone, considering his choices, and then throwing his head back and laughing when the three! pursuit ships show up.

The costumes for Ro and Selma at the end were lovely, indeed.

[identity profile] vilakins.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 07:34 am (UTC)(link)
I'm not entirely sure that Avon is as much a loner as he'd like to believe. Perhaps he was even relieved that he was given a rational excuse to stay and save then.
kernezelda: (B7 Liberator)

[personal profile] kernezelda 2008-02-03 12:55 pm (UTC)(link)
I agree. Avon goes on about not trusting people and wanting to be alone and only for himself, but he genuinely enjoys intelligent exchanges with his crewmates, and is concerned about them despite his stated intentions. Also, plainly, he's a genius who likes everyone to know it, and it's hard to be seen as the smartest person in the room when you're the only person there.

[identity profile] vilakins.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 06:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, good point!

[identity profile] hafren.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 07:18 am (UTC)(link)
What about Gan, Jenna, and Cally?

Dunno about Gan, but Jenna and Cally lack the primary qualification for making a fuss about minor ailments:)

I think Selma will be the power on the throne; she'll depose Ro in short order, with no argument from his exhausted subjects.

There do seem to be people who have an uneasy reaction to Cally, as if they sense something about her, so I think you could be right re the Kommissar.

What do you make of how unnecessarily nasty Blake is to Avon in some of this? I don't think a headache excuses it.

PS

[identity profile] hafren.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 07:19 am (UTC)(link)
just realised, I must have missed some of these while away. I must catch up!

Re: PS

[identity profile] vilakins.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 07:33 am (UTC)(link)
If you click on the tag, you'll see them all.

Re: PS

[identity profile] hafren.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 08:07 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, I figured that and it makes me feel guilty for having been idle and stopped using tags myself! I enjoyed catching up; thanks for doing these.

[identity profile] kindkit.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 08:40 am (UTC)(link)
Blake seems to be generally cranky in the early part of the episode, but I'd agree that he does single out Avon. (And then he's still being nasty to Avon at the end, despite Avon having rescued him.) I suppose it's possible he's just feeling a bit fed up; after a while it would be hard not to be as snarky to Avon as Avon is to everyone else.

I kind of suspect that when Blake says to Jenna, "Avon might run" he means for Avon to overhear it. I wonder if it's meant to be a short sharp shock--a bit of "All right, if you're going to go on about how you'll abandon us all the first chance you get, then see how it feels not to be trusted." Taking Jenna with him doesn't really make sense as a plan to stop Avon from running--presumably Blake knows, at this point, that Jenna would just refuse to pilot for him, and also that the Liberator can basically pilot itself--so I think Blake's behavior is more emotional than rational. And anyway, I think Blake does trust Avon, really. So it's an attempt (perhaps not fully conscious on Blake's part) at punishing Avon for his behavior, as much as anything.

[identity profile] kindkit.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 08:56 am (UTC)(link)
I really like this episode. Interesting that the writer is Allan Prior, later responsible for such gems as "The Keeper" (utter snooze-fest) and "Animals" ('nuff said).

This is one of the few episodes that really has a political edge to it, and I think it's a rather remarkable portrayal of the colonialist dynamic. We get the exploitation of a colony for raw materials, the systematic dismissal of its culture as "primitive" and "savage," the dilemma of the educated native elite, and the question of whether the anti-colonial struggle should be about returning to the past. The bit at the end when Ro say "we can't return to the past" actually makes me very happy, as it avoids the false dichotomy of colonialism vs. primitivism. I admit that Ro's return to his native costume and his use of the blowgun dart do look very much like an attempt to resurrect the past, but the dialogue complicates that in an interesting way.

On the other hand, the political plot was weakened by the ways it was personalized. I think you're right that Ro doesn't give a damn about his people, really. His decision to resist is based entirely on what was done to his father and to Selma. And even Selma isn't exactly a revolutionary--the first thing she says is "I'm not one of these people," meaning the other Silmarenans working in the mines.

I also could have done without the improbable coincidence of Blake having met Ro's BFF on the London (and remembering every detail of their conversation). Besides straining credulity, it's the beginning of the over-personalization; I liked Blake's earlier, more political arguments better.

Other points:

Does Cally actually read the Kommissar's mind? Didn't she get that information about Ro's father from Orac?

I notice that, despite the tearing hurry they're supposedly in towards the end because the Federation pursuit ships are coming, Blake takes time to have a wash and put on a clean shirt before teleporting back to the planet.

I also notice that Avon's back pain is not sufficient to convince him to wear sensible shoes instead of those thigh-high boots. (Avon, maybe your back hurts because you keep wearing high heels? They're not good for the spine, you know.)

Standing up for Allan Prior

[identity profile] hafren.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 09:10 am (UTC)(link)
You know, The Keeper, aka King Lear in Space, was at least an attempt to do something interesting and were it not for the manic laughter it has some stuff going for it. The king/fool scenes are touching, Jenna and Vila get to show their native wit and resourcefulness and the whole bit with Avon trying to drop Travis at Blake's feet like a dead mouse is a fascinating bit of character insight.

I've nothing to say for Animals but even less for Nation's worst, Mission to Destiny, and Holmes' fiasco Orbit. (And as for Ultraworld...) Everyone gets to screw up once, (or twice in Ben Steed's case). And Prior's other two, Hostage and Volcano, are serious examinations of moral questions plus a lot of good character interaction (and in Hostage, silver suits). Not, of course, that Prior needs any other justification for living than having fathered the Divine Maddy, but I think he's a better B7 writer than he gets credit for.

Re: Standing up for Allan Prior

[identity profile] kindkit.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 09:19 am (UTC)(link)
I will grant you all of your points about the good parts of "The Keeper"; I just think the other 95 percent of the episode is almost unbearably dull.

I don't have any particular wish to slag off any B7 writers, except Ben Steed. I was just genuinely surprised when I checked, just now, and found that Prior had written an episode I think is extremely good, an episode I really don't like ("The Keeper"), and the universally reviled "Animals." Certainly I agree that "Hostage" and "Volcano" are good eps. I'm still too much of a B7 newbie to have any stake in the writer wars.

having fathered the Divine Maddy

Eh? Enlighten me?

Re: Standing up for Allan Prior

[identity profile] hafren.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 09:55 am (UTC)(link)
This divine Maddy (http://www.maddyprior.co.uk/). Wonderful singer. The only clip I can find on YouTube is from her Steeleye Span days and isn't the best, but it's here (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=A8umqkXM2J4)

[identity profile] vilakins.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 09:38 am (UTC)(link)
Everyone gets to screw up once, (or twice in Ben Steed's case).

Twice? Three times, surely. [stab]

'The Keeper' is the ep in which Greg realised how much he liked Vila. He loves Vila's "Ah, don't leave me here, at least leave me a torch. I don't like the dark. I like to see what I'm scared of." :-)

[identity profile] hafren.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 09:58 am (UTC)(link)
While I think there's nothing to be said for HoK (except Brian, of course) and very little for Moloch, there is at least a debate to be had about Power, and I don't think its attitude to gender is quite so uncomplicated as it looks. There is much to be said about Gunn-Sar's embroidery and Pella's hypocrisy...

[identity profile] vilakins.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 10:18 am (UTC)(link)
I'd probably accept it on its own, but knowing that he hates women makes a big difference. I do like Vila's scenes with Pella.

Re: Standing up for Allan Prior

[identity profile] vandonovan.livejournal.com 2008-02-04 05:11 am (UTC)(link)
and Holmes' fiasco Orbit

Fiasco? I'm curious, as "Orbit" is one of my very favorite episodes, and I think is remarkably well written, brillantly executed and marvelously acted. It packs an amazing punch, really explains Avon's shattering state of mind, and perfectly sets the scene for "Blake." So what part is a fiasco?

Re: Standing up for Allan Prior

[identity profile] hafren.livejournal.com 2008-02-04 07:41 am (UTC)(link)
Well, for me, and I don't think I'm alone in the fandom in thinking so, nearly everyone, but especially Avon and Vila, is acting out of character. Avon goes down, abandoning the teleport and his customary caution, having done so little research that he doesn't even know about Pinder and has to rely on the thorough spade work of Tarrant(!) to dig it out. He takes a gun he knows he can't do anything useful with, because the author is going to need it for the plot later. He decides he must have a weapon which, because of its indiscriminate nature, is intrinsically immoral and which Tarrant for one and possibly the others too may well refuse to use, and will certainly deter others from joining them. He forgets the essential fact about Orac, namely that it seldom volunteers information you haven't asked for. Vila, meanwhile, seems totally unfazed by Egrorian's cruelty, which would normally both scare and sicken him, and he makes an idiot of himself showing off to Dayna and Soolin in a way that again just isn't like him; he's a better operator than that.

I do also wonder why, when Ben Steed is (rightly) slated for misogyny, Holmes gets away with his homophobia, both here and in Gambit.

PS:oops

[identity profile] hafren.livejournal.com 2008-02-04 08:14 am (UTC)(link)
he doesn't even know about Pinder and has to rely on the thorough spade work of Tarrant(!) to dig it out

too elliptical - I meant, of course, to say he doesn't know about the circs in which Egrorian really left, and his political ambitions.

Re: Standing up for Allan Prior

[identity profile] vilakins.livejournal.com 2008-02-04 09:01 am (UTC)(link)
Yes to all of those, esp Vila's behaviour with Egrorian and with the girls. [rolls eyes] That's much worse than the Orac jokes because at least I can explain those: he was starting Orac off with primary school ones.

Vila is not stupid, dammit.

Re: Standing up for Allan Prior

[identity profile] kindkit.livejournal.com 2008-02-06 01:22 am (UTC)(link)
I'm not sure if I think "Gambit" is homophobic or not. Krantor and Toise are bad guys, more or less (although certainly no worse than the impeccably heterosexual Servalan), but their villainy isn't particularly linked with their sexuality. And I think that Servalan's speech where she goes on about the decadence of Freedom City and how much she wants to destroy it is meant to make us more sympathetic to both Krantor and Toise (whom Servalan holds in clearly homophobic contempt) and the "anything goes" atmosphere of the city.

But I also feel like I may be over-reading and it's just another case of Evil Poofters.

The homophobia in "Orbit" is in my view much clearer, since Egrorian's corruption is very sexualized. He tortures poor Pinder and basically comes off as a vicious old pervert.

I love B7 enormously, but when I think about the fact that all five of the queer-coded characters who appear (Krantor and Toise, Egrorian and Pinder, and Dorian [coded queer, I think, because of the Wilde references and the way he flirts with Avon]) are villains of some type.

Re: Standing up for Allan Prior

[identity profile] kalinda001.livejournal.com 2008-02-08 09:34 pm (UTC)(link)
I agree about your assessment about Orbit. It is a mess of an episode. Both Avon and Vila are acting in ways not normally consistent with their characters.

Very strange switch for Avon's character considering not that long ago in Headhunter, he deliberately made a decision (against ORAC's advice) which endangered his own life in order to save Vila and Tarrant.

Did you notice how the director stressed how Avon and Vila had become in synch by the time of this Orbit episode? Their movements match each other, they even walk in synch with each other. This was a deliberate direction by the director. It is in keeping with how their relationship has developed over the course of S3 and up to this point in S4.

Of course this just makes what happens later really sick, and the director deliberately set us up.

Good drama? More like sick drama, setting us up like that, building up a kind of, if not friendship, at least they were close enough to be in synch with each other. And then kicking us in the teeth.

Re: Standing up for Allan Prior

[identity profile] vilakins.livejournal.com 2008-02-09 03:30 am (UTC)(link)
Their movements match each other, they even walk in synch with each other. This was a deliberate direction by the director.

Was it really? That's fascinating. I haven't seen that ep for a while but I do remember them walking in step.

Re: Orbit

[identity profile] type-40.livejournal.com 2008-02-08 09:44 pm (UTC)(link)
Hello, I hope you don't mind a lurker adding a comment.

Sorry if this is off topic.
It's interesting to see that I am not alone in thinking Orbit was a fiasco. For one, I think it's a slap in the face to fans, destroying the friendship Avon and Vila had. I suspect it was written for shock value, a sort of hey: let's see Avon act psycho.

As for Hafren's observation, "He takes a gun he knows he can't do anything useful with, because the author is going to need it for the plot later." Well said.

As for the opinion that it set the stage for "Blake" I don't quite agree. In "Orbit", Avon tried to kill Vila to save himself. In "Blake," Avon kills Blake because he thinks Blake has betrayed him. I'd say Rumours of Death set the stage for "Blake" more than Orbit did.

Re: Orbit

[identity profile] vilakins.livejournal.com 2008-02-09 03:33 am (UTC)(link)
I don't mind at all: the more B7 fans the better!

I'd say Rumours of Death set the stage for "Blake" more than Orbit did.

And the betrayals by Tynus and Keiller, two 'old friends'.

Re: Orbit

[identity profile] hafren.livejournal.com 2008-02-10 11:08 am (UTC)(link)
I'd say Rumours of Death set the stage for "Blake" more than Orbit did.

Very much so! At a con I once heard Chris Boucher, who wrote both eps, complain about the way PD pronounced the line "have you betrayed me?" PD stressed both "you" and "me". CB felt he should have stressed only "you", on the ground that Avon expects to be betrayed by everyone else, just not by Blake. As it happens, I think that for once you can justify PD's interpretation, because it goes to the special relationship between them (whether or not one thinks it slashy) and ties up with Tarrant's fascinating remark "even you". But CB's reaction shows how he was seeing it, and definitely harks back to RoD.
manna: (Default)

Re: Standing up for Allan Prior

[personal profile] manna 2008-02-11 02:21 am (UTC)(link)
Avon goes down, abandoning the teleport and his customary caution

Avon is equally shockingly out of character in Gambit, where his trip down to the planet with Vila and Orac is just bizarre. But, just like Orbit, it's all excused because Avon and Vila get some good scenes and dialogue together.

I do also wonder why, when Ben Steed is (rightly) slated for misogyny, Holmes gets away with his homophobia, both here and in Gambit.

I think that the only reason no one complains about sexism in the Holmes episodes too is that his brand involves never giving the women any lines at all. All the female crew members are practically invisible, and as a B7 writer, Holmes writes a cracking Doctor Who episode. Watching Jenna stand around in Killer and say 'But Doctor Blake, I don't understand space flight! Please, tell me all about it!' makes me sad.

Also, because he actually throws the odd bit of notional science fiction into the script it's much, much more painfully obvious that he knows nothing about science than with most of the B7 writers. Or he's just lazy about it. Either way, every time I have to sit there and watch them see a planet light years away blow up on screen in Orbit, I want to reach through the TV and slap Holmes silly.

In fact, I dislike the shoddy construction of the whole of Orbit, with the exception of Avon hunting Vila around the ship which I do still enjoy tremendously. So I guess the one scene of good Avon-Vila interaction does at least help :-)

[identity profile] vilakins.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 09:35 am (UTC)(link)
It's hard to believe Prior wrote 'Animals', the only ep I fast-forwarded through.

the political plot was weakened by the ways it was personalized

Excellent point! And yeah, it's too much of a coincidence that Ro's friend was on the London. But then so was encountering the freighter in the hugeness of space.

Didn't she get that information about Ro's father from Orac?

Hmm. I don't see how. Avon gives her a card with data on it and she immediately teleports to take it to Blake. Neither of them would have had the opportunity to read it.

[identity profile] kindkit.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 10:05 am (UTC)(link)
I don't see how. Avon gives her a card with data on it

Doesn't she come in carrying it and then hand it to Avon? I guess I'd assumed she'd been having a look at it.

[identity profile] vilakins.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 10:20 am (UTC)(link)
Ah. Thanks! That clears up a puzzle then. I didn't notice that.

Sorry about the deleted comment; it was meant for someone else. :-P

Just had an awful thought....

[identity profile] hafren.livejournal.com 2008-02-11 01:38 pm (UTC)(link)
it's too much of a coincidence that Ro's friend was on the London

Do you think Blake could have been making it up on the spur of the moment - for the best possible reason, of course? I wouldn't put it past him.

Re: Just had an awful thought....

[identity profile] executrix.livejournal.com 2008-02-11 01:56 pm (UTC)(link)
Not necessarily on the spur of the moment--he had plenty of downtime to work up Scripts, Revolutionary Contacts for the Use Of.

Re: Just had an awful thought....

[identity profile] kindkit.livejournal.com 2008-02-11 02:57 pm (UTC)(link)
No--Blake knows the name of Ro's friend and other details he couldn't have just made up.

[identity profile] vandonovan.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 09:19 am (UTC)(link)
I love and hate various aspects of this episode. I think, overall, I love it. I love Avon having the chance to run and not, but it bothers me how easily some of these things are fixed up, and how blithely Blake and everyone prior to Avon bumbled into the trap. I mean, honestly. It just makes me headdesk they could all be so foolish and yet Avon manages not to get caught. It is a nice bit of character development, and the actual concept of the plot is nice, if a bit weak done. And I can't complain about the shirtlessness, I just we got better shots of it, hahahahaa. And Vila's dirty face is SO WEIRD at the end. I just don't get it, especially given how fast he was to clean up in Killer.

[identity profile] kindkit.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 09:21 am (UTC)(link)
And Vila's dirty face is SO WEIRD at the end.

Well, the ship's about to be attacked, so I think it's understandable that Vila would just put on a shirt and run for his position on the flight deck. I think it's weirder that Blake took the time to wash up.

[identity profile] vandonovan.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 09:22 am (UTC)(link)
It's not just that, it's the pattern of the dirt. It's very obviously like he took a dirty rag and wiped a circle around his face. Which, I guess he could have But it looks SO WEIRD. Like, I'm just surprised the make up artist let him go on like that.

[identity profile] kindkit.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 09:25 am (UTC)(link)
Ah, I see. Well, if these are the same makeup artists responsible for Servalan's makeup in S3 and S4, and for Avon's truly horrifying orange foundation make-up in S4, then . . . well, one might suspect malice.

[identity profile] vandonovan.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 09:27 am (UTC)(link)
Ahaha you may have a point. Alas.

[identity profile] vilakins.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 09:28 am (UTC)(link)
It matches the pattern he has on his face when he's teleported up. Yeah, it doesn't look good from one side, but OTOH it does look the way it would if he wiped a dirty, sweaty hand over his face in the mine.

[identity profile] the-summoning-d.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 11:13 am (UTC)(link)
I like this ep. Especially Avon trying to convince himself he want to run. And shirtless!Vila! *joy*

[identity profile] vilakins.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 06:39 pm (UTC)(link)
And when they're teleported back, it looks as if Avon's about to knight poor grubby Vila (http://www.framecaplib.com/b7lib/html/episodes/images/horizon/horiz148.htm). ;-)

[identity profile] the-summoning-d.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 07:28 pm (UTC)(link)
Heh, I never noticed that before. This is why it's good to be friends with other fandom geeks ^^

[identity profile] executrix.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 02:46 pm (UTC)(link)
When I watched this, I always yelled at the screen, "Well, why SHOULDN'T Avon run? He never told you he believed in your cause and he always said he was out for himself."

I'm surprised that they never went back to Horizon, it was the only place where anybody ever *was* glad to see them.

It would get lonely floating around on that huge ship with no one but Orac and Zen to talk to. I bet the first person Avon would encounter would be Rodney McKay. And then he'd realize that Blake was King Log and now he had King Stork.

[identity profile] vilakins.livejournal.com 2008-02-03 06:45 pm (UTC)(link)
I think they'd be welcomed royally presidentially on Lindor, and on Destiny. After all, they saved the entire planet in the latter case.

Rodney McKay strikes me as a mixture of Avon and Vila actually: towering intellectual arrogance and social awkwardness mixed with honest admission of fear, hypochondria, and lack of self-esteem apart from his special skills. I'd like to see those two together; pity about the millennium or so separating them.

Damn, I meant to make that Rodney icon.

[identity profile] hafren.livejournal.com 2008-02-04 08:15 am (UTC)(link)
think they'd be welcomed royally presidentially on Lindor, and on Destiny.

And Albian, though that comes later.

[identity profile] vilakins.livejournal.com 2008-02-04 08:58 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, true!