vilakins: (cally alien)
Nico ([personal profile] vilakins) wrote2005-10-21 06:04 pm
Entry tags:

SF conventions--of another sort

Someone on an SF mailing list directed me to an interesting post on [livejournal.com profile] james_nicoll's LJ.

If you could make one convention of modern SF go away, which one would you choose?

If you could add one, what would you add?
I commented there but I decided I'd like to know what you think. My picks are:
Get rid of the hackneyed civilisation where--gasp, how original!--women are oppressed. Even Farscape and Firefly have done it. Use some imagination already.

I want more alien aliens. How about furry aliens, or insectoid ones instead of the usual humanoids, and let's play with gender with a little more imagination. How about societies with several sexes, where you need more than two to procreate, or a hive society? Anything but clichéd old recycled human ones.
But you knew that. :-)

kernezelda: (FF Brave New World)

[personal profile] kernezelda 2005-10-21 05:42 am (UTC)(link)
IIRC, the Tenctonese in, oh, God, I can't remember the name of the series, with Newcomers and a cop buddy show - Alien Nation, yes, that's it! - had a tri-part reproductive system, and the males were nominally the 'weaker' sex.

[identity profile] vilakins.livejournal.com 2005-10-21 06:02 am (UTC)(link)
Oh yes, I remember that show, very vaguely. You're right. Didn't they also use growls to seduce? :-)

[identity profile] astrogirl2.livejournal.com 2005-10-21 07:07 am (UTC)(link)
Humming. Humming was very erotic for them. :)

And, yeah, that was a show that really put some thought into making the biology and the culture and such actually feel kind of alien, even if ultimately the aliens were just humans in spotty headpieces. Their reproductive system didn't make a whole lot of sense to me in evolutionary terms, but if you believe that they were genetically engineered -- which is supportable from canon -- it works quite nicely. What I really liked is the fact that the alies quite clearly regarded themselves as normal, and when the human got freaked out by them not conforming to his ideas of "masculinity," etc., it was pretty clearly the human's problem.

I liked that show. :)
ext_166: Over a Canadian flag: "No, don't you get it? If you die in Canada, you die in real life!" (Pretty Witty Gay Hugo)

[identity profile] lizamanynames.livejournal.com 2005-10-21 06:07 am (UTC)(link)
Binnaum, Linnaum, and Gannaum, as I recall. Humans labled Linnaum as female and both Binnaum and Gannaum as male - Binnaum being "weak" males. George was Gannaum, and Alfred was Binnaum. Wierdly enough they still tended to have two-partner unions - I think because Binnaum were rare and there weren't enough to go around, they had an almost monk-like order of them I think.

A Binnaum was a catalyst - they needed to have sex with the Linnaum before conception by the Gannaum was possible. And leter on, the Linnaum tranfers a half-formed pod to the Gannaum - who actually gives birth. Kinda like seahorses.

...I was mildly obsessed with the show growing up, okay? *blushes*

[identity profile] vilakins.livejournal.com 2005-10-21 06:51 am (UTC)(link)
That's an excellent example of the sort of thing I'd like to see more of. [livejournal.com profile] astrogirl2 loves that series too; I think she's been watching it lately.

So, what are your picks? :-)
ext_166: Over a Canadian flag: "No, don't you get it? If you die in Canada, you die in real life!" (Default)

[identity profile] lizamanynames.livejournal.com 2005-10-21 07:17 am (UTC)(link)
Okay, the one I want to go away is:

(and this isn't just Sci-fi, this is EVERY TV SHOW EVER WRITTEN that's not a sitcom, it feels like.)

OMG, Unresolved Sexuel Tension!

I want a TV show where the lead character and his/her love interest find each other mutually attractive, form a rapport, fall in love...

And stay together. And have a nice, stable, open, honest relationship with a sane and normal level of conflict, that mostly stays in the background except on very very very RARE occasions when the plot revolves around it. Or hell, where they're together when the show starts. Less John/Aeryn, more Wash/Zoe, please.

What would I add? ...more alien aliens really gets my vote too, ESPECIALLY the gender thing.

Other than that, though...

(I am utterly aware how freaking impractical this is, but...)

Having the aliens TALK ALIEN, and subtitle it. Alien Nation, again, did this right. Alternately, it would be nice is alien talk is handled CONSISTANTLY. Either everybody talks one language for whatever reason and exceptions are subtitled or we have magic translation devices and everybody understands everybody, and there's no need to show off quoting latin or klingon, because it WON'T MATTER. (I'm looking at YOU, Star Trek!!) Farscape was really good most of the time, the Translator microbes felt alot more beleivable than the UT in Trek, and they sure as hell were MUCH better about idioms than Trek was, but they goofed on occasion.

I'm a linguist. A) this stuff gets under my skin, and B) acting as a translator for a sci-fi show is my DREAM JOB.
kerravonsen: cover of "Komarr" by LMB: Science Fiction (SF)

[personal profile] kerravonsen 2005-10-21 07:50 am (UTC)(link)
I agree with both of those -- I want more happily married couples, darn it!
And YES for the languages stuff.

[identity profile] vilakins.livejournal.com 2005-10-21 09:40 am (UTC)(link)
You know, SG1 started off well with the language thing, forcing Daniel to learn a few words of a culture's language so he could communicate, but it didn't take them long to have cultures separated from Earth for millennia all speaking fluent American when the SG team found them. Sigh. That's a good choice because it's one that irritates the hell out of me each time.

And yeah, B7 does it too.
ext_166: Over a Canadian flag: "No, don't you get it? If you die in Canada, you die in real life!" (Default)

[identity profile] lizamanynames.livejournal.com 2005-10-21 11:25 am (UTC)(link)
Honestly, the languages thing is one of the reasons I got turned OFF SG1.

[identity profile] vilakins.livejournal.com 2005-10-21 09:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah. It annoyed me each time, but I kept watching because of Jack-wit. I wish they'd kept up their good start.
ext_166: Over a Canadian flag: "No, don't you get it? If you die in Canada, you die in real life!" (Default)

[identity profile] lizamanynames.livejournal.com 2005-10-21 09:18 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm rather liking Atlantis, so maybe I'll give SG-1 another shot - though the language thing STILL bugs me.
kernezelda: (drd blue)

[personal profile] kernezelda 2005-10-21 01:04 pm (UTC)(link)
I would have been interested to see in Farscape an episode where the translator microbes failed entirely. "Through The Looking Glass" in Season One touched on this very lightly, but it would have been neat to see how the whole crew dealt with suddenly realizing how much they depended on translation.

[identity profile] vilakins.livejournal.com 2005-10-21 09:22 pm (UTC)(link)
Some of the people they encountered didn't have them (e.g. the Diagnosan) and Sikozu had to learn Crichton's language from listening to him (I assume she also had to learn Nebari and Luxan etc) but of course she was an incredibly fast learner. At least they provided an explanation, even if it was very babel-fish; most series don't give them and BSG drives me crazy by being a parallel-developed US society (but I love it anyway).
ext_166: Over a Canadian flag: "No, don't you get it? If you die in Canada, you die in real life!" (Default)

Funny you should mention...

[identity profile] lizamanynames.livejournal.com 2005-10-21 09:23 pm (UTC)(link)
...I've got a fic in the "Appleseeds" series I'm working on with that EXACT premise. Coming up with all the Sebacean, Banik, Traskan, Interion, Delvian, Nebari, Luxan, Diagnosian and Scarren dialogue is actually quite fun, as is the mangled English:

Chracter one: My English... not good.
Character two: (mutters) More good than Eglish mine.

[identity profile] astrogirl2.livejournal.com 2005-10-21 07:15 am (UTC)(link)
Alfred was Binnaum

Albert, actually.

And, yup, the binnaum were a very small percentage of the population. So binnaums generally wouldn't form pair-bonds themselves, but would join aforementioned monk-like order, and catalyze the unions of couples wishing to have children in a sort of religious ritual. Binnaum were allowed to leave the order if they wished, but were not allowed to practice outside it. Albert eventually left the order to marry a female, which was apparently permitted, but not exactly something the order was happy about.

(Um, yes, I was mildly obsessed with that show, too. Why do you ask? :))
ext_166: Over a Canadian flag: "No, don't you get it? If you die in Canada, you die in real life!" (Default)

[identity profile] lizamanynames.livejournal.com 2005-10-21 07:20 am (UTC)(link)
*nods* I remember that now. I forgot he got married. (And yeah, duh, Albert Einstien. How could I forget?)

So tell me, do YOU get cold shivers down your spine if somebody says *leez'antzuun?

[identity profile] astrogirl2.livejournal.com 2005-10-21 07:22 am (UTC)(link)
So tell me, do YOU get cold shivers

Shit, I just got one. :)
ext_166: Over a Canadian flag: "No, don't you get it? If you die in Canada, you die in real life!" (Default)

[identity profile] lizamanynames.livejournal.com 2005-10-21 07:26 am (UTC)(link)
*cackles*

I get this odd urge to rub my wrists nervously, too....

[identity profile] astrogirl2.livejournal.com 2005-10-21 07:29 am (UTC)(link)
I'm just remembering Emily's really scary Halloween costume. *shiver*

I am not writing AN/Farscape crossovers. I am not.

I still need to make an Uncle Moodri icon, though. Badly.
ext_166: Over a Canadian flag: "No, don't you get it? If you die in Canada, you die in real life!" (Default)

[identity profile] lizamanynames.livejournal.com 2005-10-21 07:43 am (UTC)(link)
I am not writing AN/Farscape crossovers. I am not.

But, but, the golden light that came out of that box Moodri had! AN could be an Unrealized Reality!

I still need to make an Uncle Moodri icon, though. Badly.

You DO! Or a Moodri-Stark icon "I *heart* crazy mystical alien ex-slaves"

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[identity profile] vilakins.livejournal.com 2005-10-21 09:42 am (UTC)(link)
I only saw a season if that many years ago and I think it was a random one from the middle of the series. I wish they'd shown it properly here. YOu guys make me realise what a great show I missed.

[identity profile] astrogirl2.livejournal.com 2005-10-21 09:52 am (UTC)(link)
There only was one season, though it was followed up by a number of TV movies.

Sadly, the DVDs are hard to obtain -- you have to get 'em through Columbia House's annoying subscription service (and that's possibly only in the US, anyway -- and none of the movies are out at all. Sigh.

[identity profile] vilakins.livejournal.com 2005-10-21 10:13 am (UTC)(link)
Then I must have missed the pilot. It felt like I came in halfway through. Eh, maybe I did; it was a long time ago and I don't remember that well.

[identity profile] astrogirl2.livejournal.com 2005-10-21 10:15 am (UTC)(link)
Well, it started as a movie. Maybe not seeing that made it feel like you'd missed something?

[identity profile] vilakins.livejournal.com 2005-10-21 10:18 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, that sounds right.