Stuff

[vilakins]

I suppose I should post at some point, and this is it. So here's an assortment of things.

Birthday
My sister Jenni came up from Hamilton for the day (also to look at some French doors she saw on TradeMe) and we had lunch with Greg at the local Mexican (as in run by Mexicans) cafe where I was greeted with a hug as we haven't been there for a while. Jenni gave me a scarf she bought in Israel, and Greg's present hasn't arrived yet (this week, I hope): a new computer. We also went out for dinner at a local Malaysian place (run by Malays, yay) and we will be back. NUM!

Cats (and another birthday)
Ashley is now three if you go by her notional have-a-stab-at-it birthday of 1 May. All three enjoyed tuna in celebration. She's asleep on our bed now but earlier she was dong her squeaky "chase me" act for Sebastian and they were rocketing all over the house. I do love the sound of little scampering paws. Sebastian fits in really well, playing with both cats. I have yet to see actual snuggling but this may yet happen. There will be photos of all three when I have my own computer again.
I wish he'd learn to use the cat door though. It has a magnet to stop it being blown open by the wind and he thinks it won't open when he feels the resistance. I've tied it open when I'm here, but that means he's effectively locked in at night and when I'm out which means I have to keep buying litter.

Teleporting
I am glad to see that China Mieville is with me on teleporting/beaming killing the person and copying them. Not that I choose to believe this happens in Star Trek or Blake's 7.

I'm sure there were other things but I can't think of them now.

Comments

[vilakins]

I was trying to be discreet in case I had the wrong film and you hadn't seen it, but yes, the copies were living but deliberately killed. Very creepy. The question though is whether they're real copies, the same person IOW, or copies that just think they are.

With teleportation, the basic idea is reduction to energy (or component atoms) and either reassembly to matter or reproduction from information sent at the other end. Either way the original is destroyed, so no way would I try it out. I had Vila decide in one PWB story that he'd only do it if he'd die anyway so he had nothing to lose, but I've toyed with the idea (but not written it) that the long series of copies of copies allowed errors to creep in affecting Avon and Vila in season 4.

[corvuscornix]

Sorry. I thought you meant that it was the "original" that survived the process, making it a different case. :P

Hm, not sure I follow you on the precise difference between "real" vs. "not real" copies?

I agree with you that reduction to energy would of necessity be killing the original, but if the process is based on sending information instead (as I mostly imagine it), then that needn't be the case, would it? It would depend on whether the initial process of "scanning" the individual to obtain that information could be done non-destructively, without harming him or her - and I don't see why that couldn't be the case, as we're already assuming some pretty amazing technology for the reassembly etc. In that case, you'd end up with the same result as in the film, with both the original and the copy coexisting. However, since I think few people would be willing to face the complications of having multiple copies of themselves running around at the same time, I think a mechanism for getting rid of the original would be added pretty quickly if the project wasn't abandoned in horror first... So... essentially I'm agreeing with you? I just don't think all teleportation in itself would necessitate killing of the original; only that a "commercial" version would? (If that makes any sense?)

I'm not sure that it would bother me that much though, at least not provided that the killing of my original self was instant and un-traumatic (not as in the film!), and provided the risk of dangerous malfunctions was no greater than for any alternative means of transportation, like say, driving a car. I suppose because I see my "self" as a product of the continuity of my memories? As long as the "copy" is exactly the same as the original, I don't see a breach in that continuity? I would still exist. I suppose from that POV, losing your memory would be a scarier prospect.

I'd read that! :-) If the process is information based, then perhaps it has "backups" from each teleportation saved somewhere. That would provide us with a legitimate (well, almost) means of getting our original S1/S2 heroes back when the S4 versions become too depressing...

[vilakins]

I meant that each copy would regard themselves as original because they'd feel/think that way.

OK, the thought that the original is copied then destroyed is somehow worse because there's an alternative. I remember reading a story about a women being chosen to explore the universe via alien teleport as a sort of Earth ambassador, and realising that each one of her sent out was a copy but that it didn't feel that way and she would enjoy the life she was given.

Sadly those backups would have been destroyed with the Liberator, but I do like that idea. There's an old BBC radio play called Sevenfold Crown in which there were two S4 Avons by mistake (Paul Darrow hammed it up to the hilt). You can probably download it somewhere. It's so awful it's funny, and if you can't find it, I did a transcript ages on my site.

[corvuscornix]

As long as you're sending the copies somewhere where they can't return from, it would be ok. But I think it would be rather horrible for both (or more) to coexist otherwise, with all of them having an equally valid claim to the constituents of a single life (not only possessions, but personal relationships, career etc)...

It seems to me that we really ought to distinguish the information-sending-teleportation from the other kind by calling it something else, like telecopying ("telereproduction" might be a little confusing!) Or faxing! ;-)

Ah, yes, there would have had to be backups of the backups made at some point for it to work... Perhaps Avon made Orac save copies of teleport-related files, in case he could use them later to build his own (as indeed he did)? It could work as a kind of immortality: accidentally got yourself killed today? No problem, as long as you've remembered to teleport regularly...

Oh dear, I don't know if I can handle two S4 Avon's at once... I suffer from being too easily embarrassed by people making fools of themselves (probably because I've done it myself a little too often...) :-)

[vilakins]

Hmm. "Beaming" implied they were turned into energy and reassembled in Star Trek. "Teleportation" means "far-carrying" so maybe the same thing? I suppose the information-sending copying sort could be teletransmission.

Really, little in those two old audio plays resembles B7 as the writer, Barry Letts, had never seen it, can you imagine? You can enjoy it as a strange curiosity. Vila lives for food and gets sick during hyperjumps, Tarrant doesn't sound like himself and calls troopers "feds", and Soolin and Dayna are played by other actors. Only Avon and Servalan seem themselves because they were so very OTT in S4 anyway. I don't consider the plays canon. The other one, "The Syndeton Experiment" is more like Doctor Who; Barry Letts wrote for that.

*nitpicking*

[corvuscornix]

But "transmission" could be energy too, right? Or matter, for that, hah, matter... :P To really avoid confusion, I still think our new name ought to indicate the copying aspect of information-sending in one way or another, to clarify the main distinction between the two. ;-)

Perhaps we should organize a naming contest. x-)

Re: *nitpicking*

[vilakins]

Hmm. Telereplication perhaps?

Re: *nitpicking*

[corvuscornix]

Yes... That could work. Certainly an improvement on "telereproduction"!

Perhaps we could condense it into "teleplication" for those informal moments when you're being shot at and really don't feel you need that extra syllable. "Teleplicate! Damn you, Liberator! Teleplicate NOW!"

(...as an aside I just remembered that there's something on Doctor Who that's rather cleverly named "transmat", which I assume is the equivalent of "beaming".)

Re: *nitpicking*

[vilakins]

Or "telerep!" Same number of syllables as "Teleport!" or "Beam me up!"

I thought of telereproduction but reproduction is used (incorrectly) for production of offspring. It would only be accurate for clones. :-P

Re: *nitpicking*

[corvuscornix]

Aw, and I thought it was really amusing to say "teleplicate!" But I suppose shorter is more convenient - though a bit more awkward to conjugate (is that the right word? I'm a bit out of my depth when it comes to grammatical terms)? "We're Telerep(p)ing you now" and "I have been telerep(p)ed"? It sounds a lot more uncomfortable, I suppose because of associations to "rip".

Yes, I thought "telereproduction" might be a bit confusing too, though you're quite right that the common usage is really only correct in "asexual reproduction". The other kind really should be "sexual production" only. Or "sexual generation" maybe? Anyway, not so good an association for a means of translocation. :-)

Re: *nitpicking*

[vilakins]

Telerep could stand for telereproduction too, so we should go with another short term. I like teleplicate, but it's a bt log for Vila to yell in a panic. Teleplic?

Re: *nitpicking*

[corvuscornix]

How about a trying different tack entirely? After using it in my last reply, the word "translocation" came back to me as I was digging up my vegetable patch today (very conducive to contemplation, that kind of work) and tried to convince me that maybe we needn't look any further than that. Reasons given were:

- even though the "trans-" prefix stands for "across" (I think?) "translocation" sounds to me like "causing something to be at another location by unspecified means" without necessarily indicating travel over the intervening distance in the way "transportation" and indeed, "teleportation" do.

- the above being the other distinctive difference between energy-sending and information-sending teleportation (as in the former, we do move the actual body of the person, even if it's in a different form, while in the latter we don't), perhaps we should go against my previous argument and drop the copying aspect for this instead

- it's easy to understand and, more importantly, easy to yell. "Translocate!"

...What do you think? Have I even understood the word correctly?

Re: *nitpicking*

[vilakins]

I thought we were trying to bring some sense of copying into it? I like the word, but it's basically the same as "teleportation", implying that an object was been moved, not copied.

Re: *nitpicking*

[corvuscornix]

But if an object hasn't been physically transported over the intervening distance, then it has to have been "recreated" i.e. copied, hasn't it?

At least, that's the difference I was trying to get at, but I realise that I may be interpreting the word incorrectly, if the meaning of "trans-" is restricted to "moving across" and can't be used just in the sense of "changing location".


(...I'm afraid I enjoy this sort of thing far too much, I hope you have no compunctions about ignoring me if I'm being a nuisance!)

Re: *nitpicking*

[vilakins]

I just realised I didn't reply to this. You know, I really can't think of a word that would imply information transmission and recreation at another location. Translocation and relocation just tell you the object/person has been moved, not how.

Trans-simile, like facsimile?

Re: *nitpicking*

[corvuscornix]

Well, there aren't all that many instances in the history of mankind where such a word would have been useful to know (at least not up until recently), so I suppose it's not that strange that it's elusive... :-)

Though really it's just the easy-to-shout term that's hard to come up with. If it weren't for that, I still think "telereplication" would be perfectly valid - informative and echoing "teleportation" while still pointing to the essential difference. Perhaps a more informal term simply has to be a compromise on the exact meaning.

Maybe "telelocate" in order to echo the transport-teleport relationship (translocate-telelocate)? Though it sounds more like trying to find something from a distance... And a bit of a tongue-twister to shout in a hurry too (unless condensed into "Tellocate!")

Oh, I don't know. I'm ready to give up if you are. Maybe the answer will reveal itself in a dream...

Re: *nitpicking*

[vilakins]

That could happen! Besides, I doubt people would be as happy to use the thing if it was clear that they were being copied and destroyed.

I put a bit into the story to reassure Vila. It shouldn't be too far off now BTW. Whenever I get too depressed about life (once again that contract is finished because they found someone permanent more quickly than expected--I just can't get a break) I find it hard to do anything more than escape in a book. But I've pretty much thought it all up; I just have to put the words onto the screen.

Re: *nitpicking*

[corvuscornix]

True, it could! Did you ever play the Myst-series computer games? I got stuck on one puzzle for several days until one night I solved it in my sleep... That was cool.

Yes, there is the commercial aspect to think of as well. Let's hope no-one bothers to read the small print... ;-)

Oh, I'm looking forward to a bit more Vila in my life. Though I must say I'm starting to feel quite cheap making you work so hard for such a small donation. How about I make a second one once you finish the story - that way we can both feel useful!

I'm sorry to hear about your contract. :-( But at least you've had a few recently, haven't you? Hopefully that should attract more.

Re: *nitpicking*

[vilakins]

I've sometimes solved problems in my sleep, and I often dream in German and dream words in other foreign languages which I forgot I actually knew. I've checked them on waking and they've been correct. The mind is a wonderful thing. :-)

Oh no, please don't pay any more, I feel guilty enough already about taking so long to write the story (mainly due to feeling crap about unemployment and the mess this country is in financially: not much hope for the future).

I've had three contracts this year, all short-term. I need something longer and with decent pay. The last one was for a new agency so I hope that encourages them to find me more work.

Re: *nitpicking*

[corvuscornix]

Aw, I really suck at making you feel better, don't I? :-(

I know how difficult it is to be creative on demand if the timing is bad, and I know about being depressed and what it does to you as well. And I'm not expecting anything extraordinary if you're worried about that (though I know you're capable of it - and in a way you've already written one wonderful story for me, back when we had our first teleport discussion- remember?) And in any case, it's for charity, right? You couldn't make it wasted money even if you tried!

But all right, I promise that if I donate more, I won't tell you about it. ;-)

Things have been feeling a bit shaky at my workplace for a while too. The company's in the middle of negotiating for a renewal of contract with one of their biggest customers; they were supposed to have decided by last month but it got moved forward so we still don't know. If we don't get it... Well. I try not to think too much about it until I have to.


...But please don't feel bad. At least not about the story. *offers hug*

Re: *nitpicking*

[vilakins]

I don't know how exciting the story will be, but it's the sort of thing you wanted: Avon and Vila talking, investigating the ship, and Zen-ness. I thought about adding action to the plot but failed to think of any. It's basically Vila, Avon, and Zen mucking about. :-)

Ouch. My sympathies. I've been through that a couple of times though the second time I jumped ship before it happened, but there were jobs to be had in those days.

I bet your country is in better shape, so if you lose your job, you get unemployment (I don't), and can find another one. Here people's pay hasn't changed for years, the cost of living has gone up by at least 25%, and people have been once again shafted by this week's budget. The huge expense of the earthquakes has made it all worse, regardless of the projected boom years ahead when Christchurch gets on its feet. A lot of Christchurch people have come here, and already there were hundreds of applicants for every job. :-( I stand very little chance of even earning the average wage again, yet I used to earn over it with my skills and degree. Sigh. I wish Greg would agree to move to Australia.

Re: *nitpicking*

[corvuscornix]

Yep, that definitely sounds like my kind of story - I'll take "mucking about" over action any time! :-D

Yes, Sweden's made it remarkably well through the crisis and the situation's nowhere near as desperate as yours. Really, my largest fears about unemployment are related to my personal failings with people and with things like driving (I still haven't got a proper driver's license, though I'm taking driving lessons once again, for the fourth time now) and generally not being good at handling too many things at once. So far, I've been very lucky to have a local job which demands practical skills above social ones.

But at least those are things that I can work with (and constantly do, though my degree of success often feels like a hit-or-miss deal), while your situation is dependent on so many things beyond your influence. I can understand how hopeless that must feel.

Re: *nitpicking*

[vilakins]

I don't have a lot of confidence in my ability to deal with people; I'm so much better at putting my head down and working. If I have friendly colleagues though, I'm happy to chat and joke, but dealing with customers and managers? I'm sure I get it wrong.

I'm OK driving around areas I know, but get very nervous if I'm out of my comfort zone in a part of the city I don't know well, as I was on Friday. Can you drive without a licence over there, then? You only can here if you have someone else in the car with you.

Re: *nitpicking*

[corvuscornix]

There are probably some people-related jobs that I could do all right in (though I'd rather not have to) provided the interactions are brief and about concrete, practical things or information. It's when you have to achieve more personal relationships that it gets difficult. It's not like I'm rude or a difficult person to work with; I'm not like Sheldon (yeah, I did start watching The Big Bang Theory after all! :-) It's just that a lot of the things that I find difficult to do (things like prolonged small talk; talking when there is noise or distractions around; talking to more than one person at a time; remembering to say hello to everyone every day etc&etc) often get taken the wrong way by NT's, no matter how friendly I'm being otherwise. Sometimes it's a lot of hard work just keeping people from actively disliking you, even though you like them and wouldn't dream of being deliberately unfriendly towards them... :P

No, you can't drive a proper car without a license here either. What I've been driving so far is what we call a "moped car", a kind of light-weight microcar designed for a maximum speed of 45 km/h (about 28mph?) Those require a license too, but it is not as strict as the regular one. I do have that one. :-)

[vilakins]

talking when there is noise or distractions around;

Oh yeah, that short-circuits my brain. I have to talk to myself to get my thoughts back on track. Songs on the radio do that to me too, and if they're ones I really hate, I have to leave the room. Asking people to turn their radios down in the office is yet another way I mark myself as a weirdo. And just losing interest in a conversation and going back to work probably ruined a few work relationships for me too.

get taken the wrong way by NT's

You know, I always read that wrong and think, hey, I'm an NT! Meaning intuitive thinker from the MBTI personality thing, not neuro-typical.