vilakins | Doctor Who: Utopia

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Doctor Who: Utopia

I just saw Utopia.

My nit-pickiness kicked in and I spent the first part objecting strenuously to humans (and even trucks) still being around however many trillion years in the future it is. Besides, wasn't Cassandra the last one when the sun exploded? I agree with at least two of you that the first half was crap: humans, truck, the 'footprint' (what?), and the Doctor fixing the problem so quickly and easily and crowing about it. I also found the Master's sneering at the ignominy of being shot by an insect and a girl to boot very offensive, and the Rose stuff was both annoying and degraded Martha's character in the same way it did with Sarah Jane. I really hope RTD does step down as main writer because he's sexist and can't write women.

I liked Chan Tho and was sorry she died (I assume). Derek Jacobi was wonderful (as always) and I was also very sorry that his very engaging character as a human was completely destroyed by becoming the Master.

I'm interested in what Utopia might be, but I'm sure it's not the haven they expect; the Master seems to know what it is.

And now to the really chilling thought. When I first saw the futurekind, I thought their leader was Jack which confused me briefly, but it made me think. Jack can't die and what if he's still around at the end of the universe after an unimaginably long life? Is he still sane? Is he still human? Would he remember the Doctor and his former self; would he recognise them? After all, a human brain couldn't hold the memories of such a long lifetime. [shivers a bit]

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I was a bit irritated at humans still being around at the year 500 trillion, but the Doctor did try to cover it by saying how the human race had at one point evolved into gas, and then into downloads, but always seemed to come back to the standard model. Not a perfect cover, but oh well.

For a while there, I was thinking that the Professor would be FutureJack.

Not good science, but at least they had a faint try at explaining it.

Now that would have been nice.

I agree that RTD isn't a great writer, my heart sinks whenever I see his name at the start.
The bickering was really irritating me, but I also liked Chan Tho a lot.

I didn't watch this but have been reading the very varied comments and am intrigued by how people saw, not different programmes, but different bits of said programme - you get people squeeing about one thing and not mentioning something that really brassed off someone else. That always happens to a degree, but seems to have been especially marked with this series, and this episode. For instance, the misogyny thing - some people mention it, some don't.

and the Doctor fixing the problem so quickly and easily and crowing about it

Was he crowing about it? Considering that he was calling the Professor a genius, I'm not so sure. Mind you, he does tend to be patronizing most of the time.
As for fixing it quickly, I took that to be the kind of fix which can often happen in programming, where fresh eyes can see a problem that someone who's been buried in the problem can't see. It was clear that the Professor had completely lost heart and had given up trying to fix the problem; and one isn't going to find any kind of solution if one isn't looking.

I liked Chan Tho and was sorry she died (I assume).

Yeah, she was sweet.

I'm interested in what Utopia might be, but I'm sure it's not the haven they expect; the Master seems to know what it is.

Yeah, I expect that it's a dupe or a trap. But I'm not sure we'll ever find out, since the previews seem to be taking place on Earth in the "present day", which implies that they get back to Earth pretty quickly.

Jack can't die and what if he's still around at the end of the universe after an unimaginably long life? Is he still sane? Is he still human? Would he remember the Doctor and his former self; would he recognise them?

I don't think that kind of twist would have occurred to RTD. So I don't think we'd ever see that kind of encounter.

Insane!Immortal!Jack, well, he'd probably have delusions of godhood, seeing as he can't die. If he hasn't managed to commit suicide in the interim. Tossing himself into a black hole might do it.

I agree with at least two of you that the first half was crap
It was certainly lazy SF, no thought given to the changes time would have made to the humans, though I can understand the trucks. Einstein is reported to have said that " I don't know with what weapons World War three will be fought but World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones". I just saw the primitiveness of the equipment as mankind recovering from a trip into the stone age, at least on that planet. The Professor had come from another world that hadn't bombed its self back to the stone age.
Having said that the only saving grace of the first part was David Jacobi. However, perhaps because I have been watching it recently, he struck me as a bit to much like Brother Cadfael.

Jack can't die and what if he's still around at the end of the universe after an unimaginably long life? Is he still sane? Is he still human?

What brilliant speculation. I would love it if they took the idea this far, but I don't think RTD's imagination is as powerful as yours.

- and a very pretty one:

here (http://www.dailykitten.com/archives/1108-nico-2.html)

Being bothered about being shot by an insect you can understand why he was annoyed. By a girl??? In this day and age that view is out of date Girl so too can shoot. But then Russel T writes like a public school boy so hardly surprising.
Cassandra was the last EARTH born human, this didn't mean there weren't others elsewhere.
The leader of the Hunters or whatever they were meant to be (HO HUm Moloch clones again!) looked more like a bad Darth Maul imitation.

I liked Chan THo too, but that girly bit with Martha was annoying.

Being bothered about being shot by an insect you can understand why he was annoyed. By a girl??? In this day and age that view is out of date

Consistent with the Master's views as expressed in previous stories, though, I think. After all, the Master is hardly a character whose views we are supposed to agree with.

I'm yet another member of the Chan Tho fan club.

the Rose stuff was both annoying and degraded Martha's character in the same way it did with Sarah Jane

Oh I HATE how RTD can't write an episode without a mention of Rose. And yes, you're totally right. Martha's brilliant, and this repeated hammering of 'omgrosewassofab' just diminishes her.

Awwwww, she's ADORABLE and I want to cuddle her and she's a polydactyl like Hemingway's cats!

But then I feel that way about all the kittens on that site. :-P

Chan Tho was wonderful and I wish we'd been told more about her and her culture.

The implicit stuff I've learned to ignore if the rest of a program's good enough, but when it's in your face I get pissed off.

Yes, I did wonder how he'd survive the disintegration Atillo (?) did. I do hope we find out what happened to the people on the ship, though given the universe is dying, I don't suppose there's that much hope anyway unless Utopia's a wormhole back to a previous time. Perhaps they'll end up on Earth too.

Derek Jacobi would do well with any role and he really made he like Yana.

I didn't object to the truck as a wheeled ground vehicle, just that it looks like our trucks. If they had been redeveloped from scratch, they'd look different.

Oh and the scene where the Doctor tells Yana he's a genius is indeed a lovely and touching one.

Perhaps another writer might run with it, or does RTD give his writers the basic script? He seems to have an almost obsessive control over the whole franchise.

Thanks for the bit about Cassandra; that makes more sense. I think the Futurekind (though wouldn't they be Presentkind?) were more Mad Max. Darth Maul was cool and tragically underused but that's another topic.

[looks at floor] This is the first Master I've seen. I saw mainly Four and a little Five years ago and have seen bits of others on DVD, but no Master or Rani.

RT was RTD's Sue (just as JMS put two JSs into B5) so I suppose he can't let go. That's so excuse though. There was quite a bit about early Rose I liked and this constant harping is eroding that.

And thank you. 'diminishes' was the verb I was feeling for last night. :-P

Poor deprived you. :) If you ever have some money burning a hole in your pocket, then buying at least one DVD featuring Roger Delgado's Master and one featuring Anthony Ainsley's would be a good way to spend it.

I didn't object to the truck as a wheeled ground vehicle, just that it looks like our trucks.

True but convergent 'evolution' must have happened a few times in 500 trillion or so years, in mechanics as well as s biologics. Though with that said it was lazy SF and I'll add prop gathering to that too.

Do you have any particular recs? I must ask my other DW fan friends.

Possibly "The Daemons" for Delgado and "Survival" - the very last story before the interregnum, for Ainsley.

Thanks! I'll have to see if I can find them on DVD.

Oh, I think Davies can be a great writer - when he's writing Queer as Folk, for instance. He's just been a big disappointment as a Doctor Who writer, which is a shame as I was really hopeful when I first heard he'd been put in charge.

I do like that idea. I was thinking that Yana might turn out to be someone we knew hanging around into infinity, not dying but amnesiac (I'd managed to avoid spoilers); but I suppose even trillions of years couldn't have aged Immortal Jack.

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Doctor Who: Utopia

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OTT - you have a namesake

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